Episode #448: Phil Brown

In this episode of Sales Reinvented, host Paul Watts is joined by Phil Brown, founder of The Negotiation Club. With over 30 years of experience in procurement, Phil shares his wealth of knowledge on the nuances of negotiation strategy and tactics. Whether you’re negotiating high-stakes deals or everyday contracts, Phil’s insights will equip you with the tools to make confident, effective decisions and outmaneuver tricky negotiation tactics.

Phil walks us through the key distinctions between strategy and tactics, the power of asking the right questions, and how to navigate aggressive negotiation styles with finesse. He also explains the psychology behind anchoring and shares simple but powerful tactics, like using odd numbers and summarizing, to create an edge in negotiations.

Outline of This Episode

• (1:10) What’s the difference between negotiation strategy and tactics?
• (2:06) Phil’s go-to negotiation strategy for high-stakes deals
• (3:34) The top three negotiation tactics Phil swears by
• (6:35)) The role of planning in negotiations
• (7:56) The different strategies used in complex sales
• (10:41) Handling emotional responses in negotiations and why staying calm is key
• (15:06) Phil’s Do’s and Don’ts in negotiation strategy and tactics
• (20:03) How odd numbers made a big impact on the outcome of a negotiation

The Power of Open Questions and Odd Numbers

Phil’s first piece of tactical advice is simple but powerful: ask open questions. Open-ended questions allow you to gain insight into the other party’s position, needs, and underlying motivations. By gathering more information, you can tailor your negotiation strategy to be more effective.

However, Phil warns that asking open questions is an art. It’s important not to fall into the trap of asking questions that lead or prompt answers, as this could give away your hand too early. Alongside open questions, Phil highlights the use of odd numbers as a game-changing tactic. When you present numbers, particularly during price negotiations, using odd numbers can make your proposal appear well thought out and factual.

It challenges the norm of round numbers, which can be perceived as too flexible or easily negotiable. Odd numbers can act as psychological anchors, giving you more leverage and signaling confidence in your proposal. This simple tactic can change the entire tone of a negotiation.

Planning Ahead: Preparing for the Starting Line and the Finish Line

Planning plays a critical role in negotiations, but Phil emphasizes that there are two distinct phases of planning: pre-negotiation and in-the-moment. Before the negotiation begins, preparation is all about gathering data, conducting research, and formulating your overall strategy.

But once the negotiation starts, the real work begins. This is where your ability to adjust on the fly becomes important. Phil suggests thinking of the planning process as preparing for both the starting line and the finish line. You must be equipped with all the necessary information to begin the conversation, but you also need a clear understanding of how to adapt your strategy and tactics as the negotiation evolves.

A negotiator’s ability to pivot and modify their approach, depending on new information or shifts in the conversation, is what separates successful negotiators from the rest. Having contingency plans, being flexible, and keeping an eye on both short-term goals and the long-term objective is crucial to successful outcomes.

Countering Aggressive Tactics and Handling Emotions

Negotiations often bring out strong emotions, and this is especially true when aggressive tactics are employed. Phil explains how recognizing these tactics—like anchoring, last-minute demands, or “take it or leave it” offers—can help you maintain control of the conversation. He highlights the importance of remaining calm and composed, even when emotions run high.

One of the keys to navigating aggressive tactics is recognizing that negotiation is a process. By detaching the emotional elements and focusing on the step-by-step nature of negotiations, you can avoid being pushed into making rash decisions. For example, if the other party resorts to throwing out unrealistic demands or ultimatums, you can take a step back and calmly assess the situation.

Recognizing that emotions are a natural part of the process, but that you can control how you react, is vital. This calmness helps maintain the flow of the negotiation, ensures that you don’t make decisions in haste, and ultimately gives you the confidence to push for a favorable outcome.

How odd numbers made a big impact on the outcome of a negotiation

During a high-value IT deal, Phil was involved in negotiating a price of approximately $400,000. His IT director suggested a counteroffer of $350,000, a standard round number. However, Phil proposed a slightly unconventional counteroffer of $327,000, a precise odd number. At first, his IT director questioned the choice, but Phil knew that odd numbers tend to create a sense of specificity and careful calculation, rather than a flexible, negotiable price.

When the counteroffer was presented, the other party was immediately intrigued by the odd number. They even asked, “Where did that number come from?” This reaction was exactly what Phil anticipated—odd numbers not only appear more deliberate and well thought out, but they also serve as a psychological anchor, making the offer feel more grounded in reality. The result?

The opposing team agreed to the $327,000 price, a figure they likely would not have accepted had a round number been presented. This simple but effective tactic shows how small details, like choosing an odd number, can shift the dynamics of a negotiation and lead to better outcomes.

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Learn More About Phil Brown

What was a pivotal moment in your career that shaped your approach to negotiation, and how did it influence your strategy and tactics?

One of the most pivotal moments in my career happened many years ago when I was on the receiving end of a supplier’s pitch. The proposals they presented had merit, but their delivery was so poorly executed that it completely undermined their credibility. This wasn’t just a lesson in the importance of presentation—it was a wake-up call for me personally.

As I considered giving the supplier feedback, it struck me that while I might help them improve, there was no one who would step in and do the same for me. Yes, I’d attended courses on PowerPoint and presentation skills, but I realised that genuine improvement comes from regular, deliberate practice, not one-off sessions. This epiphany led me to search for a public speaking club where I could hone my skills.

After exploring a few options around Birmingham, I found a club that met every other Wednesday after work. It was a simple format: stand up, present, and receive feedback. Yet, it was so effective that I stayed for four years, consistently practising and refining my ability to communicate with confidence.

This experience didn’t just improve my presentations—it completely transformed my perspective on negotiation. Negotiation, at its core, is a human interaction, much like public speaking, but we rarely practise it. It struck me as odd that while I was putting so much effort into practising my presentations, I wasn’t doing the same for negotiation—a skill just as critical, if not more so, in my career.

That moment planted the seed for what would later become my mission: to create a space where people can practise negotiation in the same way I practised public speaking. This realisation is why I founded The Negotiation Club, where the focus isn’t just on learning theory but on creating opportunities to practise, reflect, and improve. I firmly believe that regular practice is the key to mastering negotiation, and that’s the philosophy I now bring to companies and individuals alike.

Can you share a specific negotiation tactic that has consistently helped you close deals more effectively? Please provide an example where it worked.

One tactic that has consistently proven effective for me is the use of Odd Numbers. Odd numbers have a psychological impact; they feel more precise and intentional compared to round numbers, which can sometimes come across as arbitrary. This approach has helped me and my clients navigate difficult negotiations with great success.

A few years ago, I was asked to support a digital agency in a negotiation. They were at the final stage of discussions and had been asked to “revisit” their pricing—effectively, they were being pressured for a discount. I asked how they would normally respond, and their approach had been to offer a standard 10% reduction.

Instead, I suggested they take a different approach. I advised them to present three options—three being an optimal number for decision-making. Here’s what we proposed:

1. A 2.6% discount for a one-year fixed agreement.

2. A 3.3% discount for a two-year fixed agreement.

3. A 3.9% discount for a three-year fixed agreement.

The buying party ultimately chose the three-year fixed agreement with the 3.9% discount. This decision saved the agency over £80,000 annually compared to their typical 10% reduction strategy.

The key to this tactic lies in its precision and the strategic framing of choices. Odd numbers create an impression of calculated value, and the tiered options subtly guide the other party towards a decision that works in your favour. Of course, like any tactic, it requires careful consideration of timing and practice to implement effectively.

This experience reinforced for me how small adjustments in how we present our proposals can make a significant difference in the outcome. Odd numbers, when used thoughtfully, can be a powerful tool in negotiation.

What is the most challenging negotiation you’ve ever faced, and what strategy or tactic helped you turn it into a win?

Negotiations often involve multiple steps, but one of the biggest challenges is dealing with situations where you haven’t had time to prepare. One such experience occurred on my very first day in a new role as Marketing Category Manager at RWEnPower.

Within 60 minutes of starting, I was unexpectedly invited by the Head of Procurement to a meeting between the Marketing department and a merchandise supplier. The supplier had no idea Procurement would be present, and I was immediately thrown into the deep end. The Marketing team expressed their satisfaction with the supplier’s product, pricing, and delivery timelines. As they left the room, they declared, “Procurement will discuss the price and details,” before the Head of Procurement stood up, leaving me alone with the supplier.

I had no information, no preparation, and no strategy. Feeling cornered, I decided to rely on curiosity and relationship-building to navigate the situation. I introduced myself, explained that I was new and came from an automotive background, and expressed genuine interest in their production process. Over the next 30-45 minutes, I asked questions about how and where the cuddly toys were made, building rapport and gathering useful insights.

Eventually, the conversation turned to pricing, and the supplier offered a minimal reduction from £1.15 to £1.14 per unit for an initial order of 5,000 units. While the savings weren’t significant, I realised there was an opportunity to explore alternatives. Despite resistance from the Marketing team—who were “happy” with the supplier and hesitant to change—I sought out alternative suppliers, had samples produced, and presented the options to the internal team.

Though initially sceptical, the Marketing team couldn’t tell the difference between the products from the original supplier and the alternatives. However, the price difference was undeniable, allowing them to see the potential for greater value. With this leverage, I returned to negotiations with the original supplier and used the competition to secure better terms.

Over time, as the Marketing team realised they could increase volumes and expand the use of the product, the project grew significantly. We ultimately purchased 1.5 million units at a unit price between £0.34 and £0.37, transforming the cuddly toy into a central marketing theme for acquiring new customers.

This experience taught me a critical lesson: while preparation is invaluable in negotiations, progress can still be made when you’re unprepared if you focus on curiosity, relationship-building, and leveraging the resources available to you. Flexibility and adaptability can turn even the most daunting challenges into opportunities for success.

What are your top three must-have tools, frameworks, or resources that sales professionals should use to improve their negotiation skills?

For me improving negotiation skills requires practical tools and frameworks that focus on hands-on experience and continuous development. My top three recommendations are literally inspired by the approach we take at The Negotiation Club:

1. Negotiation Cards: Negotiation is a skill, and like any skill, it improves with deliberate practice. Negotiation Cards are a fantastic tool to simulate real-world scenarios in a controlled environment. These cards focus on specific variables such as price, terms, or volume, allowing participants to engage in focused practice. By using single-variable or multi-variable cards, sales professionals can hone their ability to manage complexity, build confidence, and adapt their tactics in real time. Personally, I’ve found these invaluable in boosting my own insights and teaching others to approach negotiations with clarity and precision.
2. Observation and Feedback Frameworks with a Team Player Role: Negotiations often happen behind closed doors, leaving little opportunity for reflection or measurement of true success. That’s where the role of a Team Player (aka Negotiation Buddy) becomes invaluable. Acting as an observer, the they can track the dynamics of both sides, identifying key impacts, such as how proposals are received, emotional shifts, or unspoken cues. This perspective provides the one negotiating with actionable feedback on their approach and its effects on the negotiation as a whole. At The Negotiation Club, I’ve integrate this role into practice sessions to ensure participants understand not just their position but also how their tactics influence outcomes. Sales professionals can use this feedback to refine their techniques and better gauge success in real-world negotiations.
3. The Power of the ‘Pause’: The ‘Pause, Consider, Respond’ framework is simple yet highly effective technique. It encourages negotiators to slow down and resist the urge to respond immediately to proposals or objections. A strategic pause allows time to process the other party’s position, consider the implications, and craft a thoughtful response. Practising this technique fosters patience and demonstrates control, which are essential qualities for building credibility and achieving favourable outcomes.

Each of these tools and frameworks works best when combined with regular practice in a safe and supportive environment. Sales professionals who commit to practising negotiation as a skill, rather than relying solely on theory, will see their confidence and effectiveness soar.

With buyer behaviors evolving and AI playing a larger role in sales, how do you see negotiation strategies and tactics changing in the future? What should sales professionals do to stay ahead?

The rise of AI is already reshaping the negotiation landscape, and its impact will only grow. We’re seeing glimpses of this evolution in real-world scenarios—such as candidates in job interviews using AI tools to suggest responses in real time. Similarly, written negotiations are increasingly being handled by AI on both sides, leading to a scenario where AI is negotiating with AI. This raises profound questions about the future role of human professionals.

One potential trajectory is that procurement and sales professionals may evolve into AI Management Professionals, with a focus on programming, monitoring, and managing AI-driven processes. This shift could lead to significant job losses in traditional roles. However, I believe it will also create a countertrend: a renewed emphasis on human connection. As AI becomes ubiquitous, people may seek the authenticity of face-to-face negotiations, where they can look the other person in the eye and connect on a human level. After all, even as companies pursue efficiency, negotiation is often driven by relationships and trust—qualities AI cannot replicate.

This dual reality will likely create a stark divide. On one hand, we’ll see a portion of professionals leaning heavily on AI, potentially becoming overly reliant on it as a crutch. On the other hand, there will be those who double down on developing their negotiation skills, mastering the human element, and gaining an edge because fewer people are focused on honing these abilities.

At The Negotiation Club, this is where I see an exciting opportunity. We focus exclusively on building personal negotiation skills, which will become even more valuable in a world where human interaction is at a premium. Sales professionals who invest in practising and refining these skills will stand out as exceptional, even in an AI-driven world.

It’s important to remember that while AI adoption is accelerating in certain sectors, globally, there’s still a massive disparity in access. Only about half the world’s population has a smartphone, so we may see an 80:20 rule: 80% of people working without direct AI integration, while 20% fully embrace it. This means there’s room for both AI-driven and human-led approaches, and professionals must strategically choose where they want to position themselves.

To stay ahead, sales professionals should:

1. Embrace AI as a tool, not a replacement. Use AI to handle data analysis and repetitive tasks, but keep control of the strategic and relational aspects of negotiations.

2. Focus on building human skills. Empathy, active listening, relationship-building, and creativity will become the differentiators in a world where AI dominates transactional tasks.

3. Practise regularly to maintain sharpness. AI won’t replace the intuition and adaptability that come from real-world negotiation practice, which is why hands-on training is essential.

The future of negotiation lies in finding the balance between leveraging technology and mastering the timeless human skills that build trust, influence, and connection.

What are some simple but powerful negotiation tactics that most salespeople overlook?

Salespeople often focus on big strategies or high-level approaches, but some of the most effective negotiation tactics are surprisingly simple and frequently overlooked. Here are three powerful tactics that can make a significant difference:

1. Odd Numbers: Odd numbers carry a psychological weight that round numbers don’t. They feel precise and intentional, suggesting a calculation rather than an arbitrary figure. For example, instead of offering a 10% discount, presenting options like a 2.7%, 3.5%, or 4.1% discount gives the impression of careful thought and value.

Additionally, by subtly including three options with small, incremental changes, you condition the other party to think within the same scale of movement. This makes it significantly less likely they will counter with a large, unrealistic demand, such as a 10% reduction. A number that feels like a “fishing trip” proposal not only looks out of place but also feels even more unreasonable in comparison to the precise, fractioned options presented. This conditioning effect ensures the conversation remains anchored within a manageable and realistic range, giving you more control over the negotiation.

2. “If You, Then We” Statements

Conditional proposals are an excellent way to shift the conversation from demands to mutual benefit. The “If You, Then We” approach frames your proposal as a collaborative opportunity:

–  “If you agree to a 12-month commitment, then we can extend a 5% discount.”

– “If you can confirm by Friday, then we can guarantee priority delivery.”

What makes this tactic particularly powerful is that once the other party understands that movement can be agreed upon when tied to other variables, it opens the door for more creative thinking. For instance, the discussion might naturally lead to exploring trade-offs between price, volume, or delivery terms. This collaborative approach prevents negotiations from becoming a battle of wills, which is common when only one variable is addressed at a time. By tying concessions to other factors, you create a dynamic exchange where both sides can see opportunities for mutual benefit.

3. Summarising: Summarising is an incredibly underutilised skill in negotiation. Taking a moment to restate what has been discussed not only demonstrates active listening but also provides clarity and alignment. For example:

– “Just to summarise what i think I have just heard, you are suggesting a delivery timeline of 60 days and payment terms of 45 days, but you still need to understand the volumes.”

When you repeat back to the other party, you let them know you’re listening to them, which can be incredibly impactful. Negotiation is, after all, a social interaction, and as social animals, we like to feel heard and understood. This act of acknowledging their input is a powerful way to build rapport and empathy. It reinforces trust and creates a positive emotional connection, which is critical for maintaining a collaborative atmosphere in the negotiation. Additionally, summarising ensures both parties are on the same page and avoids misunderstandings, making it easier to resolve outstanding issues.

Each of these tactics—Odd Numbers, “If You, Then We,” and Summarising—might seem small, but their impact can be transformative. They’re practical, easy to implement, and, when combined with consistent practice, can significantly improve a salesperson’s effectiveness in negotiation.